Stalker777 0 Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 "6-cylinder Single Vanos Procedure (E36, E34, E39) The following information is provided for reference purposes only and should be used at your own risk In no event shall Beisan Systems, LLC or its members be liable for incidental, consequential, or special loss or damages of any kind however caused. Introduction “Vanos” is BMW’s name for its variable valve timing units. Vanos units take on various shapes and design according to car year and model (engine model). The vanos discussed here is BMW part # 11-36-1-748-036 (M50TU, US S50) and 11-36-1-748-819 (M52, S52). It’s a single vanos, meaning only the intake valve timing is varied. This vanos unit is part of BMW 6-cylinder engines M50TU, M52, US S50, S52. These engines were incorporated into a wide range of car models during years 1992-1999. They are found in the 3-series E36 93-97, 5-series E34 93-95 / E39 96-98, 7-series E38 95-98, Z3 Roadster 2.8 E36 96-98, EU Z3 Coupe 2.8 E36 96-98, US M3 E36 92-99, US Z3 M E36 97-99. This vanos has been experiencing a failure. It has been diagnosed that the failure is due to deterioration of the vanos piston seal O-ring. It has been determined that the O-ring is made from Buna (Buna-N, NBR, Nitrile). Buna is a very common O-ring material, but is limited in its temperature and chemical resistance characteristics. Unfortunately it is fairing quite badly in the vanos/engine environment. The O-ring has been found to harden, shrink, and have flat surfaces. This deterioration is causing the O-ring to lose its functional characteristics and thus cause the vanos to fail. BMW has been engaged regarding this matter, but has elected to not address the issue, “No further development will be done”. New (rebuilt) vanos units are being sold with the same Buna O-ring. BMW does not provide the vanos piston seal/O-ring as a separate part. Here is a link to the Roadfly BMW E39 forum where much of this information was first made public regarding the double vanos: http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/7494631-2.html. The double vanos shares the same seals design and O-ring failure as the single vanos. The piston O-ring lies under and provides support to a piston Teflon seal ring. Replacing the O-ring requires removing the Teflon seal to access the O-ring. The Teflon seal can not be practically removed from the piston seal groove without damaging it. Thus replacing the O-ring necessarily requires replacing the Teflon seal. The Buna O-ring can be replaced with an O-ring made from Viton. Viton (FKM, Fluorocarbon) has similar functional characteristics to Buna, but has much higher temperature and chemical resistance characteristics. It’s also recommended for the automobile engine environment. The vanos Teflon (PTFE filled) seal is not a standard part and needs to be semi-custom manufactured. The single vanos has one piston with one seal/O-ring. A vanos seal/O-ring repair kit can be acquired through Beisan Systems (bee-saan), www.beisansystems.com/products. It includes a vanos replacement OEM Teflon seal and enhanced (Viton) O-ring. Here is a link to the Roadfly BMW E39 forum where the double vanos seals product was first introduced: http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/8705552-2.html. The double vanos utilizes the same Teflon and O-ring material and design as the single vanos. Symptoms Cars experience: Overall loss of torque and power, particularly in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Bogging then surging at 3k RPM. Uneven power distribution and RPM transition. Engine hesitations in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Louder idle and intermittent idle RPM hiccups. Difficult takeoffs. Loss of power and bogging when AC on. Increased fuel consumption. Repairing the vanos seals provides: Overall increase in torque and power, particularly in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Resolution of bogging then surging at 3k RPM. Smooth even distribution of power and RPM transition. Resolution of engine hesitations in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Quiet stable idle. Smooth easy takeoffs. Improved performance when AC on. Reduced fuel consumption, by ~10%. In some cases the engine computer will generate the following fault code: P1519 (BMW 212, 0xD4): Vanos mechanically stuck (jamming). Diagnosis A vanos fault code, as described above, without previous tampering with the engine timing, is most likely a vanos seals failure indication. Otherwise the vanos needs to be removed from the engine for inspection. Once the vanos cylinder cover is removed, an inspection of the piston seals fit in the cylinders will show a loose fit and thus a seals failure. Removal of the seals from the piston will show the inner O-ring has flat spots and a loss of elasticity. In general, a diagnosis is not necessary. The vanos Buna O-ring is deteriorating in 20k miles (32k kilometers). Thus essentially all the cars with this vanos have a deteriorated seal O-ring and a failing vanos. " Link to post Share on other sites
folerx 0 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 moj vanos se cuje ali radi uredno, taj zvuk me iritira i kupio sam drugi da ga posaljem u ameriku na reparaturu kod drvanos.com. frajer nesto kenja ali je reparirani vanos na putu natrag i vidjet cemo sto je napravio. njega kao svi preporucuju. inace, ako je vanos tih i ne javlja gresku na kompjutoru dovoljno je kupiti gumice za reparaturu: http://www.iridiumengineering.co.uk/vanos.htm radi se o jednostavnom postupku i svakako je preporucljivo. ako se vanos cuje kao diesel onda je jedina opcija drvanos ili kupovina drugoga koji je tih pa njega popraviti sa setom gumica. ono sto se cuje su lezaji unutar ova dva dugacka zupcanika (na doljnjem vanosu, smedje boje): http://www.bmuu.com.au/Home/Photos/M1/E36%...os%20Change.JPG bmw je te lezaje napravio sa prevelikom tolerancijom i s vremenom se to pocne cuti. ono sto je manje poznato je to da mozes kupiti drugi vanos jedino ako stari doneses u servis!!! radi se o cistoj bmw-ovoj prevari jer bmw samo prodaje reparirane vanose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
necam3 0 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Ako su problem ti lezaji, da li je moguce zameniti njih, ne bih da saljem vanos u ameriku, nemam bas poverenja, i ako nije tajna koliko si platio drugi vanos, mozda bih i ja kupio josh jedan, moj se cuje samo kada ga upalim 3-4 sekunde i onda prestane, sve radi ok, ali ipak me nervira sto se cuje i tada.... Link to post Share on other sites
folerx 0 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 nemres te lezaje zamjeniti jer treba poseban alat za to. vanos radi na principu pritiska ulja i kada upalis auto u vanosu nema ulja i zato se cuje. ako prestane roktati nakon par sekundi kada poraste pritisak ulja onda je vanos ok. platio sam ga 200e u njemackoj i bio je u odlicnom stanju. ono sto mozes napraviti je kupiti ove dihtung setove i promjeniti te gumice. Link to post Share on other sites
necam3 0 Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Hvala za informaciju, interesuje me josh jedno, kada ga bash przhish do koliko stepeni ti se penje temperatura ulja, ovog leta u nekoliko situacija sam video skalu na 120 stepeni, proverio sam sve shto sam mogao, hladnjak za ulje i creva su ok, sipam castrol tws 10w-60, ali mi se chini da je to visoka temperatura? Link to post Share on other sites
folerx 0 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Hvala za informaciju, interesuje me josh jedno, kada ga bash przhish do koliko stepeni ti se penje temperatura ulja, ovog leta u nekoliko situacija sam video skalu na 120 stepeni, proverio sam sve shto sam mogao, hladnjak za ulje i creva su ok, sipam castrol tws 10w-60, ali mi se chini da je to visoka temperatura? nikada preko 100. tws NIJE ULJE ZA M3 E36!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To je ulje SAMO ZA m3 e46 i novije m modele. koristi mobil 5w50 i miran si. ako zelis najbolje kupi motul 8100 ili 6100 gradacije 5w40 ili 15w50. 5w40 po jeseni i zimi a 15w50 po proljecu i ljeti. 5w50 mozes voziti cijele godine. Link to post Share on other sites
Stalker777 0 Posted November 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 "inace, ako je vanos tih i ne javlja gresku na kompjutoru dovoljno je kupiti gumice za reparaturu: http://www.iridiumengineering.co.uk/vanos.htm " Hvala majstore za info - nego koliko te izasla zamena gumica i kako si narucio-platio? Link to post Share on other sites
BMW 528iA 0 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Samo 5 50 u taj motor. Link to post Share on other sites
necam3 0 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 nikada preko 100. tws NIJE ULJE ZA M3 E36!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To je ulje SAMO ZA m3 e46 i novije m modele. koristi mobil 5w50 i miran si. ako zelis najbolje kupi motul 8100 ili 6100 gradacije 5w40 ili 15w50. 5w40 po jeseni i zimi a 15w50 po proljecu i ljeti. 5w50 mozes voziti cijele godine. koliko sam procitao motul navedena ulja preporucuje za laganu voznju, a m3 nije zeljan takve voznje, mada mislim da mi termometar ne radi ok, ali svi koje sam pitao su preporucili tws, i josh jedan problem, u srbiji je tesko naci orginalno ulje, tws mi donosi brat iz nemacke i znam da je ok, ovde shta god da kupish i koliko da platish, nisi siguran shta si nasuo... Link to post Share on other sites
///Misic 0 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 Video sam tws da se nudi u setovima za S54, S62 pa na dalje, a ranije ne... Link to post Share on other sites
necam3 0 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 s50 i s54 su vrlo slicni motori, blokovi su radjeni od istih materijala kao i glava motora, ako uporedish s50b32 i s54, videcesh da je razlika veoma mala shto se tice samog motora, elektronika jeste drugacija, ali ona i nije bitna za ovu pricu... Link to post Share on other sites
folerx 0 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 ...Hvala majstore za info - nego koliko te izasla zamena gumica i kako si narucio-platio? ja sam kupio drugi vanos i poslao ga u ameriku drvanosu na reparaciju. trenutno je na putu natrag pa cu vidjeti sto je napravio. gumice te dodju oko 60 funti s postarinom. platis nekom kreditnom karticom. ja imam paypal racun. naime ameri su skuzili da su oem bmw gumice radjene od loseg materijala zvanog buna-n. cak su slali bmw-u taj nalaz no oni su ih odjebali. vise objasnjenja: The infamous M3 vanos system often has an undeserved bad reputation - but how many are actively maintained throughout their lifespan? Many vanos problems can be caused by the solenoid seals failing. This is largely due to the standard Buna-N (nitrile/NBR) O-ring material (selected by the designers circa 1992) having limited thermal & chemical resistance properties which are not ideally suited to the vanos operating environment. We recommend fitting this kit which will update the seals to modern material specifications and fend off any seal-related vanos problems for years to come? So what is Viton® Viton is an advanced fluoroelastomer and has established new standards for high performance seals. With its exceptional resistance to fuels, oils and fluids, combined with its excellent heat resistance (nearly twice that of NBR), Viton® is used extensively for demanding & critical environments such as automotive, aviation, aerospace, military & marine applications. Replace your standard O-rings & 8.8-grade bolts with our upgraded Viton® O-ring kit & upgraded 12.9-grade high-tensile bolt set. All seals & bolts supplied are specially sourced & an exact size-equivalent to the OEM parts, not just a 'near-enough-is-good-enough' size! Viton® retains sealing force to prevent leaks even after compression for long periods in severe environments. After 100 hours in air at 150°C, Viton® retains more than 90% of its original sealing force, while O-rings and seals of nitrile retain only 40% !!* Link to post Share on other sites
folerx 0 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 tws 10w60 je pretesko ulje za s50b30 i b32 m3 e36 motor. motor tesko dise s tim uljem. u bmw tis software-u se preporucuje 10w40 gradacija. :) osim toga s54 i noviji m motori imaju drukcije kartere i dual pickup pump i zbog toga bolje teraju ulje kroz motor. tws se mora stavljati samo u s54 i s85 v10 motor. do 02/2000 m5 e39 treba imati tws a nakon toga moze imati i druga. evo dao sam si truda pa slozio file gdje imate bmw preporuke koje ulje u koji motor (click on "free user"): http://rapidshare.com/files/305044153/bmw_...ndation.zip.htm naime, prvi m5 e39 motori i m3 e46 su se raspadali zbog ulja koje nije moglo izdrzati ta opterecenja pa je castrol napravio ester based tws 10w60 ulje za te motore. kako bmw distributeri imaju monopol na distribuciju tog ulja jasno da njega preporucuju jer imaju najvecu zaradu. Link to post Share on other sites
Matics 0 Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 moj vanos se cuje ali radi uredno, taj zvuk me iritira i kupio sam drugi da ga posaljem u ameriku na reparaturu kod drvanos.com. frajer nesto kenja ali je reparirani vanos na putu natrag i vidjet cemo sto je napravio. njega kao svi preporucuju. inace, ako je vanos tih i ne javlja gresku na kompjutoru dovoljno je kupiti gumice za reparaturu: http://www.iridiumengineering.co.uk/vanos.htm radi se o jednostavnom postupku i svakako je preporucljivo. ako se vanos cuje kao diesel onda je jedina opcija drvanos ili kupovina drugoga koji je tih pa njega popraviti sa setom gumica. ono sto se cuje su lezaji unutar ova dva dugacka zupcanika (na doljnjem vanosu, smedje boje): http://www.bmuu.com.au/Home/Photos/M1/E36%...os%20Change.JPG bmw je te lezaje napravio sa prevelikom tolerancijom i s vremenom se to pocne cuti. ono sto je manje poznato je to da mozes kupiti drugi vanos jedino ako stari doneses u servis!!! radi se o cistoj bmw-ovoj prevari jer bmw samo prodaje reparirane vanose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ajde javi kad ti to stigne, kako je odradjeno i da li funkcionise kako treba... Link to post Share on other sites
folerx 0 Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 svi kojima je radio kazu da je to bio dobro ulozen novac. e sada cemo vidjeti. ja sam imao neki spor sa njim oko ostecenog paketa pa sam malo oprezan. Link to post Share on other sites
folerx 0 Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 stigao usrani vanos na moju postu iz amerike. sutra idem po njega i sljedeci tjedan montaza. vidjet cemo sto je drvanos napravio. :) staviti cu i slike njega samoga a i video o demontazi i montazi naravno. mislim da cu uloviti i video o podesavanju ventila. Link to post Share on other sites
folerx 0 Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 stigao vanos od drvanos-a. nesto vidim je radio, nesto vidim da nije dirao. ne znam, znat cu kada ga stavim u auto. no ono sto vidim da je napravio i meni najvaznija stvar je onaj prokleti zupcanik koji stvara onaj prokleti zvuk. evo jos jednoga filmica a nastavak oko debate zvane vanos slijedi. ovu gumicu nije slozio: tu se vidi da je nesto radio (dihtung smjesa - sto mi je cudno jer inace tu ide neki teflonski dihtung, pofarbao je poklopce): cini mi se da i ove dihtunge nije dirao: Link to post Share on other sites
BMW 528iA 0 Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Trebao si da pitas kod koga da saljes Vanos. Imao si Beisan Systems koji su miljama bolji od Doktora. Link to post Share on other sites
folerx 0 Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Trebao si da pitas kod koga da saljes Vanos.Imao si Beisan Systems koji su miljama bolji od Doktora. besian systems ne radi euro m3 vanos jedinice. raspitao sam se ja okolo o drvanosu i svi su imali dobre preporuke. mozda je moj slucaj izdvojen. jos cu se raspitati kod drugih. Link to post Share on other sites
folerx 0 Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 evo jedan dobar video gdje se vidi kako se testira vanos. kompresirani zrak i switch box 12V. cekam da mi covjek kaze koliki je pritisak zraka. Link to post Share on other sites
crnizmaj 0 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 na M3, nista drugo nego 10w60 castrol tws ili edge !!!!!!!!!! i nebi trebalo da bude na 120 temperatura ulja ! meni na pistu ne prelazi 105 Link to post Share on other sites
folerx 0 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 na M3, nista drugo nego 10w60 castrol tws ili edge !!!!!!!!!!i nebi trebalo da bude na 120 temperatura ulja ! meni na pistu ne prelazi 105 neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 10w60 ulje je za m3 e46 i m5 e60, ne za e36!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
necam3 0 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Nije bio problem sa uljem, termometar za ulje nije bio dobar, posto je prethodni vlasnik stavljao belu pozadinu na cajgere nije dobro namestio kazaljku... Link to post Share on other sites
crnizmaj 0 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee10w60 ulje je za m3 e46 i m5 e60, ne za e36!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! brate izvini ali ti nemass pojma u M3. stavljaj ti sta hoces u tvoj S50, ali ja ti kazem da se samo stavlja 10w60 u taj motor ! (imam svoju firmu, prodajem 2,3 M3 mesecno, i vozim svaki dan M3 i na putu i na pistu) Link to post Share on other sites
jocakunta 0 Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 brate izvini ali ti nemass pojma u M3. stavljaj ti sta hoces u tvoj S50, ali ja ti kazem da se samo stavlja 10w60 u taj motor ! (imam svoju firmu, prodajem 2,3 M3 mesecno, i vozim svaki dan M3 i na putu i na pistu) da le se mogu naci te gumice u srbiji ili neka zamena??? Link to post Share on other sites
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